- Entering from Reserves, including outflanking and deep striking, has been made less effective.
- There is a significant reduction in AP2, with an increase in breaching/rending to partially compensate.
- There is an increase in models with 2 wounds to increase durability of terminators and others.
- Bikes and jetbikes have been toned down.
Here is a breakdown for some of the most impacted units and items:
Dreadclaw Drop Pod
Loses Assault vehicle status
Loses Assault vehicle status
Loses ability to enter Turn 1
Loses ability for embarked unit to disembark the turn they arrive via Deepstrike
Loses ability for embarked unit to disembark the turn they arrive via Deepstrike
Triggers Interceptor reaction when it arrives
Loses frag assault launchers
No change in points
Initial thoughts: The way this unit works has changed dramatically. It seems much less useful now but costs the same. I will need to experiment with it, but 115 points for a transport with no weapons (other than heat blast) and that is not an Assault vehicle seems very hard to justify. Even for a shooting unit, the earliest they can disembark and shoot is Turn 3 (best case is to arrive Turn 2 and disembark Turn 3) instead of Turn 1 before, and the opponent gets at least two chances to shoot them first (Interceptor and then their own turn).
Outriders
Plasma guns go from AP2 to AP4 (Breaching 4+)
12" Turbo boost move replaced by 4" run move
12" Turbo boost move replaced by 4" run move
Reactive Jink replaced by 5++ save when you run
Lose extra toughness (T4 vs T5 previously)
Gain Hit and Run (only White Scars bikes had this in the last edition)
Gain Hit and Run (only White Scars bikes had this in the last edition)
Retain Scout but lose Outflank
Base movement increased from 12" to 14"
Points for my unit reduced from 305 to 190
Points for my unit reduced from 305 to 190
Initial Thoughts: At least the points are dramatically reduced to compensate for the massive loss in capability so these may be fine in the new edition. Just need to test them in some games. They will certainly play differently.
Sky-Hunters
Lose extra toughness (T4 vs T5 previously)
2+ save changed to 3+ save
Goes from 1 wound to 2 wounds
12" Turbo boost move replaced by 4" run move
Reactive Jink replaced by 5++ save when you run
Base movement increased from 12" to 16"
Gain Hit and Run (only White Scars bikes had this in the last edition)
Any jetbike can take a weapons upgrade now (instead of only 1 in 3 previously)
Points for my unit reduced from 260 to 215
Initial Thoughts: T5, 1W, 2+ save, and Jink being replaced by T4, 2W, 3+ save and worse jink will make these a lot less survivable. They are slightly cheaper so this may be balanced out.
Power Glaive
Goes from +1S AP2 2-Handed striking at initiative to +1S AP3 Breaching (5+) striking at initiative.
Goes from +1S AP2 2-Handed striking at initiative to +1S AP3 Breaching (5+) striking at initiative.
Initial Thoughts: Losing AP2 at initiative obviously makes these worse but they were arguably too strong before. At least losing 2-handed gives you the extra attack. The points cost is also reduced. Overall, I think this is a fair and fun change even though it will make the Ebon Keshig much weaker against Terminators.
Primaris-Lightning
Loses Tank Hunter upgrade
Loses "ground attack" upgrade (+1 BS vs ground targets)
Gains 1 HP
Gains 1 HP
Triggers Interceptor when it arrives from Reserves
Loses Jink
Loses Agile (+1 Jink)
Loses Chaff Launcher
Loses Armored Cockpit
Loses most weapon options (8 options to 2 options)
Points: Increased from 260 to 305
Loses Jink
Loses Agile (+1 Jink)
Loses Chaff Launcher
Loses Armored Cockpit
Loses most weapon options (8 options to 2 options)
Points: Increased from 260 to 305
Initial Thoughts: Wow, this got significantly downgraded and much more expensive. The only upside is the third hull point. Overall, this unit seems hard to justify for the cost. This is probably a result of being moved to a "Legacy" unit no longer supported in the Core rules.
Scouts
(The new rules separated Recon Marines in Power Armor from Scouts in Scout Armor.)
These are significantly changed so I won't go through the full list of differences. The main downside is they are no longer counted as Scoring units. The upside is they got significantly cheaper and have flavorful rules like being able to have a 3" unit coherency and the ability to run and still shoot snap shots. I am excited to try them because they seem like a fun and flavorful unit. With a 4+ armor save, I don't see them surviving to the end of the game to claim an objective anyway!
White Scars Rules and Unique Rite of War
Before I could take one Heavy Support choice with my Rite of War, now I cannot take one. Now I cannot use the Sicaran Omega with the Rite of War. A frustration for me is that I cannot use all of my models in the same army anymore. In the basic force organization chart I will have too much fast attack and in the Rite of War I will have too much heavy support.
Before I could take one Heavy Support choice with my Rite of War, now I cannot take one. Now I cannot use the Sicaran Omega with the Rite of War. A frustration for me is that I cannot use all of my models in the same army anymore. In the basic force organization chart I will have too much fast attack and in the Rite of War I will have too much heavy support.
There are a lot of rules changes in their base Legion special rules as well but that is the case for all the Legions.
Of course, there are many changes across the board in points costs, base rules, and Legion rules. These were a few that really stood out in terms of how they impact the way the army plays. It seems they really want to get rid of units attacking directly from reserves. I understand that because it is not fun to have your stuff blown up by something that pops up out of nowhere, but it feels like it defangs my poor White Scars army that struggled to compete with Pete's traitors before. The new rules seem to encourage a tank wall of heavy armor and heavily armored transports. I don't want to jump to conclusions until we play a few games but I fear a familiar result for my army: a bad beating.
Of course, there are many changes across the board in points costs, base rules, and Legion rules. These were a few that really stood out in terms of how they impact the way the army plays. It seems they really want to get rid of units attacking directly from reserves. I understand that because it is not fun to have your stuff blown up by something that pops up out of nowhere, but it feels like it defangs my poor White Scars army that struggled to compete with Pete's traitors before. The new rules seem to encourage a tank wall of heavy armor and heavily armored transports. I don't want to jump to conclusions until we play a few games but I fear a familiar result for my army: a bad beating.
On the other hand, I think removing Jink is a good thing. Very high invulnerable saves are annoying for the other player. I would feel better about it if the costs of units like the Lightning were reduced a bit more by giving up their main source of defense.
I just hope the new rules will result in balanced and fun games. We will find out soon enough how it all plays out in a game!
Wow, they nerfed a lot of your already struggling army. Plasma guns are only AP 4?? Blech! Your fighter and drop claw are both stripped of cool upgrade options and usefulness in general. Power glaives are only AP 3 now, making fists the clear choice for terminator melee. Yeesh. It's like they looked at your army and thought, "Yeah, these guys need a downgrade." Fighting battles on a large table with a mission that favors speed is your only hope. But I suppose it is fitting for the look and feel of HH to favor slow, grinding, heavy armies.
ReplyDeletePlasma is AP4 but Breaching 4+, so if you roll a 4, 5, or 6 to wound it goes to AP2. So 40% of the time you wound a marine, they get a save and 60% of the time they don't. So it becomes roughly half as effective against marines.
DeleteAlso, to be fair, I found out in our game that Pete's big scythes were also reduced to AP3 with rending 6+. There is a lot less AP3 and AP2 in general across the board. Most of the big artillery like Earthshakers are down to AP4. I guess they figured there were too many games where the super-tough power armor and terminator armor was just getting shredded to ribbons with no chance to roll saves! I like that change, but it will take some getting used to in how we equip and use our units.
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ReplyDeleteMaybe some day they'll get some developers who like Mongols as much as you do who will make better rules for the Scars and other quick armies. Perhaps you should have chosen Eldar. They have tons of sweet light units who use speed for defense. Instead of comparing Kommandos to Marines scouts, you should do a side-by-side between your bikes, jetbikes, and tank and their Eldar counterparts. No doubt they do more for less points
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